Brand Builder: Be human first – people drive brands (podcast episode #142)

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Data-driven marketing.

That is an oft-repeated phrase in our industry. It’s hard to find a LinkedIn profile that doesn’t make a claim of being a data-driven marketer these days.

And while data is helpful, it’s not the only thing that should drive you, my next guest says. Be human first, because people drive brands.

To hear that lesson, along with many more lesson-filled stories, I talked to Desiree Sanchis, VP of Marketing for Beliv US.

Beliv has sold a million cases across 40 brands in 30 countries. Sanchis manages innovation, marketing, and e-commerce for Beliv’s U.S. portfolio of eight active brands in addition to those in the company’s development pipeline

Hear the full episode using this embedded player or by clicking through to your preferred audio streaming service using the links below it.

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Lessons from the things she made

Human First: People drive brands

Behind every successful company, people are pushing it forward. Her approach is always “First the who, then the what.” In marketing, it’s not just about selling – it’s about understanding consumer behavior deeply. Early in her career, Sanchis worked on a campaign where the data suggested one strategy, but consumer feedback led them in a different direction.

By prioritizing human insights over rigid frameworks, they succeeded and built stronger brand loyalty.

Dream big and embrace change

The only constant is change, and growth comes from navigating uncertainty. Sanchis started her career dreaming of being an entertainment lawyer but found herself working on a 10-second Geico commercial, where she learned about media buying. Fast-forward to today, and she has worked across industries, adapting and evolving at every step.

Success isn’t about following a straight path – it’s about staying open to opportunities and always being a student of the game.

Find your purpose and execute relentlessly

As Simon Sinek says, “Start with Why.” As a leader, marketer, or brand owner, purpose is the foundation of impact. At Beliv, they don’t just sell beverages – they tap into deep emotional connections with consumers. In one campaign, they shifted from product-led messaging to purpose-driven storytelling, making consumers feel part of a movement. The result? A massive increase in engagement and brand affinity.

Lessons from the people she made it with

Lead with empathy

via Maureen Ford (President, National Sales @ Live Nation)

Ford taught Sanchis that authentic leadership is about more than hitting numbers – it’s about fostering genuine connections. Watching her navigate high-stakes negotiations while making people feel heard showed Sanchis that empathy is a differentiator, not a weakness, in executive leadership.

Storytelling is powerful

via April McDaniel (Founder, Crown & Conquer)

McDaniel has a gift for transforming raw ideas into compelling narratives. They met while launching a brand with talent, and she instinctively understood how to craft a story that resonated with their target audience. Her ability to align brand values with cultural trends turned a standard campaign into an authentic movement.

Build internal momentum

via Spencer Gordon (Group VP, Consumer Connections @ Anheuser-Busch)

When Sanchis joined Anheuser-Busch, Gordon was starting Draftline, AB’s in-house creative agency. He turned a small idea into a 100-person team, proving that internal marketing is just as crucial as external efforts. Watching him build excitement and buy-in from within inspired her approach to launching internal initiatives at Beliv.

Discussed in this episode

CPG Campaigns: Marketing is often about showcasing human truths (podcast episode #107)

Marketing Storytelling Examples: How 3 brands told their stories (with results)

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Transcript

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Desiree Sanchis: My right hand is my legal team. It is very interesting because, you know, in the US, I have been part of heavily regulated industries, and across the board, it gives you a different perspective. You know, they, they think about it in such a different way that that it allows you to be of sound like, and that is something that, you know, I think individuals maybe potentially at times or brand needs can run away from their legal team.

I mean, it, I really, I want to hear their perspective. I want I want them, to be able to be my partners. And because I think going back to it, to the original, it really is all about the people behind the brand. And it's not just me.

Intro: Welcome to how I made it in marketing. From marketing Sherpa, we scour pitches from hundreds of creative leaders and uncover specific examples, not just trending ideas or buzzword laden schmaltz. Real world examples to help you transform yourself as a marketer. Now here's your host, the senior Director of Content and Marketing at Marketing Sherpa, Daniel Burstein. To tell you about today's guest.

Daniel Burstein: Data driven marketing. That is an oft repeated phrase in our industry. It's hard to find a LinkedIn profile that doesn't make a claim of being a data driven marketer these days. And while data is helpful, I will not deny that it's just not the only thing that should drive you. My next guest says be human first because people drive brands.

Joining me now to share the story behind that lesson, along with many more or less NFL stories, is Desiree Sanchez, VP of marketing for Believe Us. Thanks for joining me. Does.

Desiree Sanchis: Thank you, Daniel, for having me. It is an honor to be speaking with you today.

Daniel Burstein: And the honor is likewise. Let me tell the audience why. Let's hear about your background here. Des was a cross. Worked as cross platform sales for Disney, ABC television Group digital planning and strategy from Live Nation Entertainment at Anheuser-Busch InBev. From brand to commerce marketing. And for the past year she's been it believe. Believe has sold a million cases across 40 brands in 30 countries, and Des manages innovation, marketing and e-commerce for believes US portfolio of eight active brands in addition to those in the company's development pipeline.

So does give us a sense of what is your day like as VP of marketing?

Desiree Sanchis: Oh, that's such a lovely question, Daniel. You work for me, and and I think we're we're what is exciting is, you know, where do I find my routine? And then where do I let the day take me to never have a dull moment? You know, for me, my my morning, I, I really go in in terms of waking up either doing something, some movement, some, some activity, that that really allows me to just get my mind set in the right place.

I am a meditating meditator, on, on a daily basis. And then of course, have my brew coffee, which is one of one of our, one of our brands with that, you know, I usually start with a bit of emails that I, that I go through my inbox, especially if it's a Monday. I'm sending my team a weekly priority email to to really make sure that we start the week with momentum, and really strategizing, what comes, what comes next.

And then from there on, that is where, you know, the day can take a turn. We obviously have a couple of weekly meetings, you know, weekly one on one and such. However, we are, you know, we are a startup in the US believe is one of the largest Latin American beverage companies. However, in the US, it has not even been here about five years, not even five years.

And so that is something that, you know, as I look into it, we are building our brands. We're building our networks of partnership retailers and distributors. And so, you know, at different times of the day and the week, certain brands and certain needs and request, need my need my time always, you know, a challenge as, as we are building the business and the future is very bright.

Daniel Burstein: Very nice. Okay, well, let's unpack how you got here. Let's take a look back of your career. In all these lessons you learned, I like to say, you know, I've never been in any other career. I haven't been, like, a podiatrist or an actuary or something, but I don't think they get to make things. We get to make things.

You're making new brands. You're making this new footprint in the US. Right. So let's take a look back. So as I mentioned, one of your lessons was human first people drive brands Tulsa. How you learn this lesson.

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. You know for for me something that is is critical is.

Is we are all.

We all want to feel included and recognize us as human beings. And that's where we have products, where, you know, we are trying to create that relevancy and resonate with who the individual is. You know, the reason why you drink, or you choose a certain brand is a different reason than why I do. It's a different reason than why anyone here does.

And so really, going into that human side of marketing that I like to call, you know, it's how do we offer the sense of belonging, you know, for me and something that that I see here specifically with believe is, you know, one of our top products, petite nectar comes from El Salvador. And, and we've imported into the, you know, into the US.

And it really is targeting those Latin Americans that want to be connected with their heritage, want to be connected with that, you know, familial tie back that they have that, you know, Salvador back in back in Latin America. And so that is where, you know, how do we how do we connect with that human where this brand represents a heritage.

But then also how do we evolve, you know, speaking, doubling down on empathy? You know, the consumer used to be Spanish speaking. However, in this last year, we actually found out they're speaking more English because now it's that the Irish fourth generation. So that that really goes into, you know, what is that human side? Where is that data that can really showcase the magic and can make that individual feel included and recognized?

And I think that from the brand. But then also, you know, for my own life, I there's so ways a team behind it, you know. No, no, no brand. Is just built with one individual. I think that yes, we have founders however, but then they bring on a team to help them expand it, to help take it from their kitchen, you know, all the way to to that grocery store.

So there really is this human element, I think both on, you know, how do we speak to our consumer? But then also on the back end of, of who is driving that brand? At the end of the day, people.

Daniel Burstein: Yeah. So do you have an example from your career, maybe a specific example of how you use customer feedback to tap into those people in those human truths? So for example, when I interviewed Karuna Rau, the CMO in CRO of Nature's Find, on how I made it marketing, one of her lessons was similar marketing is often about showcasing human truths.

And she told the story of how she helped conceive the Like a Girl campaign for Procter and Gamble brand, which again, I mean, that tapped into this deep human truth. So whenever you have an example of how you've used customer feedback in your career to to tap into a human truth.

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean.

Customer truth for customer truth. I mean, I think it's it's a reason why every, every effort for every brand there needs to be, you know, what is that that customer truth. All or double down on, petite because I think I think, you know, I mentioned that in terms of the language, but then, you know, the.

Customer or the shopper I should say, is, are the parents actually are the Hispanic parents, but then the consumers actually who are drinking the product are usually kids. And so it's very interesting because how do we tap in to speak to the parents, in in regards this, but then also, you know, make sure that we are pleasing the children in, in, in regards in regards in regards to where we have.

And so, you know, I think that is something where, you know, if the customer and the consumer was also the parent, which at times can be, I in in regards to that will be that would play a different way in terms of in terms of the campaign that we built last year called Too Good to Be Free, which is actually like very much about the family.

It was, you know, a family where parents were serving their kids breakfast in the morning. So we really even honing into the occasion. And that's something that I think, you know, even to the, to the what is going to be on the breakfast table, you know, what is what is that food that, that people are going to have for breakfast is something that we even research and test, you know, are they, you know, are they having eggs or avocado toast right now, which I think which I think is something interesting to see because at the end, because at the end of the day, we really need to align to to what their truth

is, what they see themselves and they we can portray them, when we speak to them.

Daniel Burstein: Right. So when you're talking about help them see themselves and for return when they speak about them. I feel like sometimes there's, there's also like the thing we really want them to see with our marketing. Right. You know, and so you mentioned also dream break, dream big and embrace change. So how did you learn, how did you learn this lesson?

Desiree Sanchis: So that lesson comes from, you know. We we live in a country of, of opportunity. And, for myself, this this is, this is a place where, as I look back at the food of last night, hating yourself, that I would be leading a marketing team, I would have said no, I did not even consider this. However, I'm here now.

I've been able to evolve. I've been able to dream big. I've been able, you know, to start on more of a platform side and now, be leading a marketing team. And I think within that is also embracing the change of releasing the change, embracing curiosity and embracing that curiosity. Oh. You know what? Like I'm on the platform side, but what are the brand teams doing?

Who's the one deciding, you know, where that brand should be in a Live Nation show or in a Live Nation festival? And and I think from that, really comes this, you know, embrace of change and, and embrace of curiosity that, that is about taking a leap of faith for me and, and in terms of my own, my own story.

I think, you know, from a brand standpoint.

You try to perfect and create, you know, that one white tee planned, five white plan that some companies have, that three white plan. However, there's changes and there's, you know, there's an opportunity. We saw, you know, in the beer category, seltzer came in and and was a massive growing category within the last year. And so you saw brands that had to pivot, you know, beer brands creating, creating, creating seltzer, seltzer brands new to world seltzer brands, partnerships within, within the seltzer world.

And the same thing is happening now, actually with the sodas, you know, there were, say, two distinct competitors within within the soda space. And now healthy gut sodas, is where the category is going. You know, you're you're seeing that consumers are gravitating to that. And I think, you know, change is something that that is inevitable. And, and part and part of life.

And so as a marketeer, how do you embrace that and how do you really,

Embrace it for the positive. Positive, not only for your portfolio, but for your brand.

Daniel Burstein: Well, and part of that change is sometimes we pivot from where we thought we were going to be. And I know you had planned on being an entertainment lawyer, and I wonder if there's anything that you use today from that original passion, because, for example, I love stand up comedy, right? And I'm not going to be a stand comedian, but like, I tap into that passion and I study it and I see this analogy to marketing where, you know, the value proposition, that's the set up, right?

Then there's the payoff, the, you know, the punchline of the joke, or there's the actual value we deliver and there's a conversion which for them is a laugh, you know? And for us, it might be a purchase or a click or email subscription, whatever. But I always think we have to kind of look outside of just our niche focus industry to see what we can learn and, and, and apply.

So I just wonder for you, I know you originally wanted to be an entertainment lawyer. We talk about dreaming big and embracing change. That was a big pivot in your life and career to marketing. Is there anything from from that though, that you've been able to apply or learn from in your career?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, the two things that I would say is something I loved and I interned with many lawyers was their curiosity and their way to ask the question of the why. And then, you know, and doubling down on that, why it was there was there was a firmness of, of okay, you know, why is that brand name?

Okay. Where does that branding come from? Why did you choose that word? You know, what is the benefit? Why is that benefit going to behoove the consumer. And and so I think, you know, those are two things that, that I, that I look to in a plan. And in addition to this, I would say, Daniel, that I always say this of my right hand is my legal team.

It's very interesting because, you know, in the US, I have been part of heavily regulated industries, and across the board, it gives you a different perspective. You know, they, they think about it in such a different way that that it allows you to be a sounding board. And that is something that, you know, I think individuals maybe potentially at times or brand leads can run away from their legal team.

I like that, I really, I want to hear their perspective. I want I want them, to be able to be my partners. And because I think going back to to the original, it really is all about the people behind the brand. And it's not just me I don't know, you know, I don't know everything, within, within the legal sense.

So I need their expertise. So. So how can we bring different expertise in the table to really be able to drive all brands forward?

Daniel Burstein: And that also kind of figuring out how we're into our brands forward, working with our brands or our careers personally. You mentioned find your purpose and execute relentlessly. So can you tell us a story from throughout your career, how you how you learned to do this?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. For me, you know, my my purpose, is to connect the magic between people, places and products. And I, I believe this in my every day. I am by trade a connector in in regards to. And I think that's what marketing does. You know, how how are we driving that cultural relevance and that connection to to the individual?

And what's that story that's really going to be able to resonate, you know, and, and that is something that I, that I believe, you know, I found out as it was about five years within, within my career. And I was like, this is what I want to do. This, this, this shows this is where this is my this is where I, I, I feel like it brings me so much happiness and joy.

And I think once you find that, you know, you double down and it and, and pursuing relentlessly and, and this is, you know, now the opportunity that I have right now of leading a portfolio brand, leading a team, where we want to make a difference and we want to, expand within the US and we want to bring our products to every individual.

We want to create flavors, for every individual, because I think that that is something where, which which I love about being within a portfolio, brands that you can do, you know, not every consumer is is our same target. And so that for me is something that drives me and really is part of my own dream and pursuit of happiness.

Daniel Burstein: You know, you mentioned to me earlier that you've worked at companies with 99% awareness, right? Some of these big brands. Do you have an example of how you find that purpose within a big brand like that and execute? Yeah, I know you also referenced kind of Simon Sinek. Start with why I definitely, you know, a challenge I've heard with marketers and bigger companies is they feel like, oh, well, I can't shake the value proposition.

So how much can I, you know, really do here. So how do you kind of, as Simon Sinek says, start with the why in a big brand and then turn that into a campaign you can execute within, as you mentioned, 90% awareness. There's a there's a pretty established brand there. So there's some there's some kind of guardrails that you can't go over.

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. No, that that is a that's a great question. And I think I have always worked with brands that I resonate with in that regard. So I think I think it starts it starts with that where I, I see what I see what they're trying to do and something that I think, you know, that we, that I have been able to bring and really bring to it is my own perspective and my own experience, you know, and and I'll take it, you know, specifically back to one of the brands where, yes, it has 99% awareness.

However, it still had opportunity with the Hispanic consumer. And so that was something that I took on in terms of challenge, in terms of, you know, and going with that larger brand. I actually worked, on one of their Hispanic line extensions, really focused to, to that, to that, to that consumer, and that product. And that was something that excited me and I was able to help build while still having the essence of the brand.

I mean, there's a legacy that you also learn. There's a duty that you have that you're like, okay, how can I also continue that legacy? You know, something that's an instant access that I absolutely love is this infinite mindset. Like, I hope that all the brands that I have touch have lived beyond me. And then I think there's something beautiful.

I mean, there's there's been brands that that have and that will. And so, you know, for some you have to build that foundation, you know, world brand both for some others. How do you continue that legacy? And I still think it's a very much, very intentional. It's demanding, has high expectations, as, as an individual. And it can teach you so much because you see, that really consistency drives that legacy, you know, that that archetype of that brand being the gesture, that brand being the everything.

And, you know, they campaigns change, but they still need to have that archetype and really live to that person that that is the expectation of the consumer.

Daniel Burstein: Right. So that's some great stories from some of the things that dads has built in her career. And just a moment, we're going to talk about some lessons from some of the people she made it with. That's what we get to do as marketers. We build things. We build them with people. But first I should mention that the How I Made It a marketing podcast is underwritten by Mac Labs.

I, the parent company of marketing Sherpa. You can get conversion focused training from the lab that helped pioneer the conversion industry in our AI Guild and a community to collaborate with. Grab your free three month scholarship to the AI Guild at Joint Mic Labs. I.com that's join dot MSE labs ai.com to get going with artificial intelligence. All right.

First person you mentioned was Maureen Ford, the president of national sales at Live Nation. And you said for Maureen you learned how to lead with empathy. Can you tell us the story behind that?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. She, she she is, she's such a lovely and authentic leader. And and for her, you know, she at the time, she, she's now the president of national sales. She was still within that sales role. But for her, it was really more than hitting numbers. It was about fostering this genuine connection. She she always gave the opportunity for everyone to have a seat at the table.

And I thought that was so, intentional of her. You know, you watch her navigate high stakes negotiations with key partnerships, and she still has that has that beauty to to allow people to feel heard, and really be able to drive, really drive the conversation. And, you know, in a way that is so welcoming and inviting and inviting to all, and I think especially, you know, for myself and I was really I think Live Nation was the moment where I was really considering this brand where I not only was on the digital side, but experiential, seeing how brands came, came to life, especially especially in events, she someone that till

this day I woke up to in terms of the way that she just led with empathy, and curiosity and that openness to allow others in.

Daniel Burstein: Yeah. That's. So what did you see about how the Live Nation brand came to life? Like, is there something you learned in that that you were able to take to other brands that weren't necessarily event brands? But obviously experiential marketing is, you know, a very effective tactic. Is there anything specific from that live, live nation you took for?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. I mean, you know, something that that I, that I go back that I go back to and, and that I really talked about and that we talked about from, from the human side is, you know, every event that Live Nation does is a different music genre targeted to a different consumer. And that is something, that I think as you see, that it doesn't just happen from the artist, but it also goes all the way down to the, to their sponsorships and, and their partnerships.

So they're very much intentional of who do they let in, and who do they want to even partner with to be able to bring this experience to life? We all know, that experience is really drive human. I mean, their sales are skyrocketing in terms of both tickets, in terms of concerts, in terms of in terms of festivals.

And I think it's because they've been able to really drive these authentic experiences that humanize it and, and really go into what is that the consumer wants to be doing while they're at this festival.

Daniel Burstein: Right. And so you also mentioned that storytelling is powerful. And one of the things I think of when I think of like a really good live event is that storytelling aspect. I know had, people talking on here before about attending Taylor Swift and seeing like, okay, there's really I mean, that's an event that's really a storytelling with all the different things that go on through it.

Right. You said you learned about storytelling from April McDaniel, the founder of Crown and Conquer. So can you tell us the story of how you learned about storytelling?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah, it was, April, such such a joy. She she she has this this gift of transforming raw ideas into just, like, compelling narratives. We actually met while launching a brand with with talent. And she was so instinctive in terms of how to craft this story that resonated with, with the target audience. And it was actually during, you know, the Covid times, actually, that the, that this, that this happened and I think, you know, you are put into certain circumstances, but what is your choice and how are you going to choose to align these brands values with cultural trends that really turn into a statement and really authentic movement for for

that, for that individual. And so she is she is someone that, that I would say not only has a power story, but also she's able to curate, she's able to curate, every moment. In a way that that story inspires you and it inspires those, those around her. And that's something that I carry in me because, you know, as cheesy as it sounds like every presentation should be a story, but do we make it?

No, because it takes time. However, you know, how do you strive for that to be? And that's something that I, you know, I believe I continue to learn and I believe that everyone can can learn the power of storytelling, through time and practice and consistency.

Daniel Burstein: Well, when telling a story for brand, you have an example of how you found the right story to tell for a brand. Because, for example, I, did a case study with a nonprofit called Wreaths Across America, and, they got this story and a thousand articles or more is a great PR story. What they did was they they found a real story, and they shared a story of a secret mission flight that disappeared.

So, you know, these veterans who unfortunately died in this secret mission disappeared. And and it was found recently. And that's what their taps into their nonprofit, what they do reach across America, they lay wreaths on veterans graves. And so, you know, I, I've mentioned before, I get tons of PR pitches in my role. I've gotten like over 4000 applications to be on this podcast.

And, and there are so many that are more like, hey, it's about the thing we're trying to push. We want to just, you know, tell you about our new company, our product, or this or that versus I love that cross America example because it wasn't so much, hey, we're talking about our profit. It's like, okay, we found something that aligns into our mission.

We want to shine a light on that. And I feel like all brands can do that. So one of the other example like, yes, that storytelling is so powerful, but how have you found the right story for a brand, Daniel.

Desiree Sanchis: For, for, for me, when you, you know, when you evaluate a brand and when you look at the brand purpose of like, why is it what why is, you know, why is hype here? Why is Big Easy pop here? Why is petite nectar here? You need to. You need to dig deep, deep. And you need to be able to really transcend those, those numbers.

I would even say it's like it's it's being able to find. The being able to find the why, you know, and and I'll talk, I'll talk about Big Easy Pop, which is, which is a brand that we launched actually last year. But it came in it was a line extension of Big Easy Kombucha, where we were seeing that kombucha drinkers were were switching over, to healthy to healthy gut sodas and, and so we launched Biggie's a pop with, with a partner that was willing, a retail partner that was willing to take to take a bet on us and as we were building that story, you know, at first we went in

being like, okay, we're going after the Big Easy kombucha drinker. It's going to be a female shopper of this retailer. We know they with, the product actually launch, launch in Florida. And as we now are getting the feedback and seeing the data of where brand, our brand is actually going in another different direction now, it's still, you know, it's still resonating with that target consumer, but actually it's now resonating more with a different demographic.

And so there's a beauty of that. Okay. How do we, you know, stand within that brand purpose, but also realize that it's resonating with other individuals and with and with and with other consumer base. And so building that, we actually, have now evolved to campaign, for, for Big Easy Ball Park, which is called a pop, a pop of joy, that we're showcasing like, you know, yes, the product has a ton of benefits in regards to being organic, being stevia free, being three grams of sugar.

However, there's this joyous and fullness that the brand brings that we are building, that that story and and we're digging deeper into it. And the consumer actually built it for us. And now it's like, okay, how can we tell it from our side? How can we double down on it?

Daniel Burstein: You know, I love that because the customer ultimately determines the brand is right. We don't. Well, I wonder would that with your current role, you know, to what extent do you. So I'm sure as you mentioned before, you tap into some ex-pats like people who had lived overseas since you're, you know, running the U.S. market who are now.

So to what extent do you tap into nostalgia from, okay, you came over here or but to what extent you look for a new consumer in the US because, for example, I remember you talk about like a famous brand coming to America. There's this great Russell Brand, the comedian, which funny is, I think, his brand. I remember when he hosted like the MTV Awards, and he opened it by saying, I'm very famous.

And they said, but when it kind of loses its punch, when I have to tell you that. And it was it was such a perfect example of branding, right? Because he was famous in the UK, but then he comes into this new market and nobody knows him. And so I could see some analogies with you. Like as you mentioned, your, you know, brand is some of your brands were more famous outside of the U.S now you're coming to the US and you're trying to kind of tap into that nostalgia.

But I would also think it's not only the people that lived in that country that moved here. The thing about America is like, obviously I eat foods from all across the world that I have absolutely no heritage connection to. So I wonder how you balance that of tapping into this knowledge of for the expat audience, but also expanding to US audience who might know nothing about your brand before but might want to try something new.

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah, I think that that's a great question, Daniel, because, you know. It goes back to embracing change that I mentioned of, you know, as, as marketeers, we have a brand, we have a consumer muse, we have our brand purpose, we have our archetype. We, you know, have a one year plan. However, as as individuals get two weeks brings the brand and, and I think it goes down to two placements.

And where they are in terms of, you know, placements at retail platforms, experiential, in in regards to it, you users tap into it. And so, you know, at time we don't even realize, you know, that some of our brands is also resonating with, with other individuals. And, and so for, you know, from our end, I think, yes, we, we have to have a plan.

However, I think that is where we need to embrace change and be able, to maneuver the brand to the consumers who it's speaking to. And at times it can be invaluable, you know, but there has been some residual have been that consumer consumer base that you've had purchases, but then also allow it to go to other demographics that you did not think it could.

And that, I think, is a beauty because, you know, you realize that even what you're doing is aligning to that consumer base. So imagine if you now intentionally even speak to them further and and double down on that. I think that is something that. Is the beauty of of embracing the change as, as a marketer, especially with the different generations, you know, nowadays the generations don't drink alcohol the way that they did.

So, you know, in regards to that, you know, an afternoon what used to be an afternoon cocktail now can also be an afternoon healthy good. So good healthy soda or an afternoon coffee. And so how do you really lean into that change that your brand can give. And that also the consumer shows you.

Daniel Burstein: Yeah. So speaking of change, I mean some of that change obviously is external a large amount. But you also need to drive change internally as well. Right. You mentioned build internal momentum. It's a lesson you learned from Spencer Gordon, the group VP of consumer connections at Anheuser-Busch. How did you learn this from Spencer?

Desiree Sanchis: Oh, he it's been fascinating because he when when I was actually entering for franchisor Bush. He was one of the individuals who interviewed me. And at that moment previously, I was I was at Lake Nation as, as you mentioned. And Lake Nation actually had their own internal agency. And it's something that we actually used a ton.

And they still actually they still do it. And when I was interviewing with Spencer, he, was starting a behind houses creative agency draft. Right. And, you know, for, for him something that that really he has taught us is all about that buying from within that needs to be inspirational and needs to be able to resonate. And you need to be proving performance metrics which which I think is something which I think is something that is very unique to see.

You know, from the time I started, it was him and another person. And by the time I left, I was actually working under him, and under him with over 100% team. And so you know, within a company who's been around for hundreds of years, in, in, in, in, in regards to that and, you know, is one of the leading marketeers in regards to, you know, they worked with, they worked with so many agency that they still saw this need.

And he honestly saw this need of really building an internal agency that can help in terms of driving that cultural relevance, in terms of community management, in terms of e-commerce, in terms of creative. So it's something beautiful to see of of the change and the momentum that one can build internally if they believe.

Daniel Burstein: So you mentioned kind of briefly, but I wonder if you can go to more in depth there. How do you decide what the internal agency works on versus an external vendor? Because when you mentioned this coming from Anheuser-Busch, the interesting thing is their vendor ecosystem with agencies is broad and deep. And, you know, there's and I don't know about Anheuser-Busch specifically.

So when I say this, I'm not mentioning them. I mean, sometimes in such, big environments, there's competition between the agencies. I mean, frankly, knives out of like, you know, competing for that different work. And so that's very interesting where if you also now have an internal agency in play, how that works out. So I mean, how did how does that work and what can we learn from that in terms of vendor selection and what to keep in-house and what to to outsource of, like, what would you use the in-house agency versus where do you decide to use like what external agency?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. Look, I want to I want to start and say it's very brand dependent. You know, I, I know brands that use both. I know brands that only use internal. I know brands that only use external. You know, right now in our current portfolio, most of our, most of our brands use external, but then we have one brand that uses internal, in, in regard to it.

So I think you know. As, as you asked and mentioned, it really is specific to each brand and their life stage. You know, where they at? What do they need? What platforms are they using? You know, do they need to create a campaign? Who are they? Who are they speaking to? You know, can we build on it?

And I and I think it's also an evolution. You know, there's some there's times where I think, you know, you start with only external and then you have hybrid and then potentially going to internal or the other the other way around. And so it's really looking at evolving, you know, what are those brand needs. But then also those business needs you know, do you have the expertise.

I'll use community management as an example to manage community and internal or or do you need to do you need to outsources. And then from there it's who's the right partner to do. I think that is also something you know, as, as we have the RFP process as, as you, you speak to a ton of agency. I think something that I was very keen about is let's always be speaking to a new agencies to see what they can bring and how we can how we can help them evolve our brands.

What what new ideas, can can they give us, and. And how are they evolving with our brands?

Daniel Burstein: Is there something you would never outsource? You know, I say that because to me, the thing that really I always think has to be owned by the CMO in the marketing department is the value proposition. And yes, you can certainly have external consultants or whatever come in and challenge it and help you develop it, that for sure that's going to.

But I mean that you got to own. So what is it for is a value proposition or other things? What is it for you?

Desiree Sanchis: I would say two things. I would say I would even before I say that word proposition, I would say the insight and data, the consumer and your value proposition in because, because at the end of the day, the value proposition, you build it off knowing what is that consumer need. And that's really where weird starts. Now. And so that for me is something of and here we call it consumer muse in in regards to it.

You know who who is who is our our our north star. That is something that I definitely think a brand new soon. And that goes along with the value brand value proposition. For it that that I don't think you can reach. I mean, that's why I think you have a marketing team in regard to it. But then I think from the creative side, that is where in the media side and, experiential side, that is where I think you can definitely outsource and potentially also bring in-house, depending on where you stand as a business organization.

Daniel Burstein: And then before I let you go, I want to ask you one, specific question based on your expertise, because I've heard different takes on this. So from your expertise is when you talk about the Latin American market, and I will say within the US, let's say, is that one market or is that not one market? Because I've definitely heard some brands, like you talk about Anheuser-Busch and I don't know how they handle, but okay, there's a Hispanic market and we pitch it here.

But I've heard other brands say like, no, like someone from Mexico or someone from Cuba or someone from Alsace. These are different markets, any market differently. And there's different things they want. And by just painting this broad brush, you're totally missing that. So how much can and should we group it together or are market just way off on that.

They're trying to group something together that shouldn't be grouped together.

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah. So something just for a little bit context. I'm from Spain originally and my mother's from Europe, so so I also, you know, I have that I believe that I think you need to go deep and actually, be very intentional, you know, how do you speak someone from El Salvador to someone from Mexico to someone dress and you and you need to do that.

However, there's synergies within that. You know, I think I can compare it. You know, to the South where, you know, they say, for example, y'all and you don't necessarily use y'all in the Midwest, you know what I'm saying? Or in or in the northeast. So I think that is where there's a beauty that I think you need to at times.

And depending again, on the brand, really go deep into it. And then there's times where you can find synergies even within that brand as that brand grows across across the board. So, you know, I would start with going deep and then and then wide.

Daniel Burstein: Okay. Well, we've talked about many different things from your stories about what it means to be a marketer. If you had to break it down. What are the key qualities of an effective marketer?

Desiree Sanchis: Yeah, I love this question. I think curiosity is my number one. It really drives that conscious and emotional and cultural relevance, that I think we all need that for me to be able to drive our and answer what our consumer needs are. I think second one would be creativity that can drive that connection and purpose and consistency to tell what is what is that story.

And then lastly is.

Challenging the status quo with with an adaptable one and learning mindset, to be able to embrace change as we discuss.

Daniel Burstein: Well, thank you for sharing your career with us as and all the changes you've been through.

Desiree Sanchis: Thank you Daniel, for having me. This has been lovely and I hope you have a great day.

Daniel Burstein: Thanks to everyone for listening. Hope you all have a great day as well.

Outro: Thank you for joining us for how I made it and marketing with Daniel Burstein. Now that you've got an inspiration for transforming yourself as a marketer, get some ideas for your next marketing campaign. From Marketing Sherpas extensive library of free case studies at Marketing sherpa.com. That's marketing RPA ecom.